<VV> Auxillary electreic fuel pump

[Joe West]

1961 Rampside - 1962 Monza Wagon - 1963 Corvan ULTRA EuroRep/Ambassador
From Jebfmc at aol.com Sat Oct 8 18:15:25 2005
From: Jebfmc at aol.com (Jebfmc@aol.com)
Date: Sat Oct 8 18:15:33 2005
<VV> Auxillary electreic fuel pump
Message-ID: <197.487560a3.30799efd@aol.com>

Hi Guys,
I have a 1966 140 4-speed that has the seemingly common problem of empty
carb bowls after only a couple days of not running. As the car is not a daily
driver, a long start procedure is hard on the battery and starter. Someone
suggested an electric fuel pump to fill the carb bowls before trying to start the
car.
My questions are these:
1. Can an electric pump be installed in the main fuel line? Will the
mechanical pump pull gas thru a non-running electric pump?
2. Will the gas pumped by the electric pump get thru the mechanical pump to
the carb bowls or do I have to run a separate fuel line from the electric
pump directly to the carb bowls.

Thanks in advance,
Jim Bennetts
Akron, OH

[Joe West]

From shaun_mcgarvey at shaw.ca Sat Oct 8 18:41:50 2005
From: shaun_mcgarvey at shaw.ca (Shaun)
Date: Sat Oct 8 18:41:44 2005
<VV> Auxilliary electric fuel pump
References: <197.487560a3.30799efd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003101c5cc59$7a5873e0$69634446@vf.shawcable.net>

Jack, in my opinion the bowls go dry quickly when there is an air leak in
the system, usually at the rubber connecting hoses under the car or at the
fuel pump inlet. If you install an electric pump, the location of the leak
will quickly become apparent as the main fuel line switches from suction to
pressure.

yea, Vairily ... Shaun

[Joe West]

----- Original Message -----
From: <Jebfmc@aol.com>
To: <virtualvairs@corvair.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 3:15 PM
<VV> Auxillary electreic fuel pump


> Hi Guys,
> I have a 1966 140 4-speed that has the seemingly common problem of empty
> carb bowls after only a couple days of not running. As the car is not a
daily
> driver, a long start procedure is hard on the battery and starter. Someone
> suggested an electric fuel pump to fill the carb bowls before trying to
start the
> car.
> My questions are these:
> 1. Can an electric pump be installed in the main fuel line? Will the
> mechanical pump pull gas thru a non-running electric pump?
> 2. Will the gas pumped by the electric pump get thru the mechanical pump
to
> the carb bowls or do I have to run a separate fuel line from the electric
> pump directly to the carb bowls.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Jim Bennetts
> Akron, OH
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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[Joe West]

regards, tim colson
From Ebarr19 at aol.com Sat Oct 8 20:31:30 2005
From: Ebarr19 at aol.com (Ebarr19@aol.com)
Date: Sat Oct 8 20:31:42 2005
<VV> Auxillary electreic fuel pump
Message-ID: <159.5b1d3894.3079bee2@aol.com>

Jim
The answer is yes, I have both manual and electric fuel pumps on my 64-
Sprint for the same reason, I let the electric pump up the pressure, start the
car and shut it off. You can hear the pump change speed when the pressure is
up.
Gene Barr

[Joe West]

rich
From N2VZD at aol.com Sun Oct 9 17:23:06 2005
From: N2VZD at aol.com (N2VZD@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 9 17:23:12 2005
<VV> Re: DO VAIR CARBS GO DRY?
Message-ID: <12e.680f3fd0.307ae43a@aol.com>

my rampy likes lots of pumping to get started after a day or so of
inactivity. my van starts right up (after one pump to set the chokes) when left alone
for long lengths of time...what gives? like the old rochester quadrajet bowl
drain syndrome? the carbs are all late models with power circuits, same jet
sizes etc. someday i would like to know. meantime this winter i plan on
building 4 new carbs identicle as possible just to try. next it will be fuel
pressure gauges on both also.i have seen some nice small ones at napa.

[Joe West]

regards, tim colson
From pottsf at msn.com Sun Oct 9 18:22:19 2005
From: pottsf at msn.com (N. Joseph Potts)
Date: Sun Oct 9 18:22:05 2005
<VV> Re: DO VAIR CARBS GO DRY?
In-Reply-To: <12e.680f3fd0.307ae43a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY0-SMTP08E7678B85F0685F2FD8FFCF860@phx.gbl>

You've got a situation here that invites experimentation. First, swap the
fuel pumps (they should be identical, unless one of your vehicles is 61 or
prior). If the problem doesn't move with the pump, swap the carbs. Even
though you said the carbs were both late model with power circuits, you
didn't say they were the same MODEL. If they are, you can leave them
swapped. If they aren't, they MIGHT not work quite as well on the "wrong"
vehicles, but just likely, they would. APPARENTLY, you mean to have
identical carburetors on both engines, so I'm assuming the engines of these
two are the same horsepower. Between not specifying: (a) years; (b) carb
models; and (c) engine models, you've left us lots to guess about.

Joe Potts
Miami, Florida USA
1966 Corsa coupe 140hp 4-speed with A/C and 7026326 and 7026323 carburetors
on each side (stock)

-----Original Message-----

[Joe West]

From: virtualvairs-bounces@corvair.org
[mailto:virtualvairs-bounces@corvair.org]On Behalf Of N2VZD@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 5:23 PM
To: virtualvairs@corvair.org
<VV> Re: DO VAIR CARBS GO DRY?


my rampy likes lots of pumping to get started after a day or so of
inactivity. my van starts right up (after one pump to set the chokes) when
left alone
for long lengths of time...what gives? like the old rochester quadrajet
bowl
drain syndrome? the carbs are all late models with power circuits, same jet
sizes etc. someday i would like to know. meantime this winter i plan on
building 4 new carbs identicle as possible just to try. next it will be
fuel
pressure gauges on both also.i have seen some nice small ones at napa.
regards, tim colson

[Joe West]

From BobHelt at aol.com Sun Oct 9 18:48:59 2005
From: BobHelt at aol.com (BobHelt@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 9 18:49:04 2005
<VV> Re: DO VAIR CARBS GO DRY?
Message-ID: <100.1dc18f00.307af85b@aol.com>

In a message dated 10/9/05 3:22:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
pottsf@msn.com writes:

> If the problem doesn't move with the pump, swap the carbs.

Joe has a great suggestion. May I also suggest that you check under the carbs
when you swap them to see that you have the same number and type of
insulators there.
Regards,

[Joe West]

http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
From lechevrier at earthlink.net Sun Oct 9 20:55:07 2005
From: lechevrier at earthlink.net (Chris & Bill Strickland)
Date: Sun Oct 9 20:55:15 2005
<VV> Re: DO VAIR CARBS GO DRY?
Message-ID: <4349BBEB.9080603@earthlink.net>

Joe --

So you would be thinking that the carbs may siphon dry back through the
fuel pump?

It would seem if the needle & seat are above the level in the float
bowl, which they should be on a regular Vair carb, that that would be an
adequate siphon break to prevent this. I know of an old tractor that had
this problem, but it had an updraft carb with the inlet below the fuel
level.

I have had similar experiences all summer, needing to use the electric
pump to get things primed up, and was wondering if maybe it wasn't the
fuel formulation lending itself to easier evaporation -- didn't used to
have to do this unless the car had been sitting a while (weeks) but now

[Joe West]

From UltraMonzaWest at aol.com Sun Oct 9 22:02:30 2005
From: UltraMonzaWest at aol.com (UltraMonzaWest@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 9 22:02:38 2005
<VV> RE: carbs going dry quickly / starting
Message-ID: <1a7.40ea23d0.307b25b6@aol.com>

1 I've always had good luck if the chokes were rich enough.......but that's
always more choke than I need.

2 PV carbs........any chance it's leaking DOWN and out the plug?

Matt Nall / Patiomatt / WCUH / Mr. DeckRug
69 Monza Cpe., 66 Monza vert, 65 Crown v8 Cpe.

[Joe West]

yea, Vairily ... Shaun
From Larry at Forman.net Tue Oct 11 01:34:09 2005
From: Larry at Forman.net (Larry Forman)
Date: Tue Oct 11 01:34:31 2005
<VV> Re: DO VAIR CARBS GO DRY?
In-Reply-To: <12e.680f3fd0.307ae43a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20051010221845.03216e68@getmail.forman. net>

At 05:23 PM 10/9/2005 -0400, N2VZD@aol.com wrote:
>my rampy likes lots of pumping to get started after a day or so of
>inactivity. my van starts right up (after one pump to set the chokes)
>when left alone
>for long lengths of time...what gives? like the old rochester quadrajet bowl
>drain syndrome? the carbs are all late models with power circuits, same jet
>sizes etc. someday i would like to know. meantime this winter i plan on
>building 4 new carbs identicle as possible just to try. next it will be fuel
>pressure gauges on both also.i have seen some nice small ones at napa.
>regards, tim colson

Hi Tim,
My Greenbrier started acting like that. It was taking longer and LONGER to
get sufficient fuel to start. I replaced the fuel pump and no
change. Finally I installed an electric fuel pump. Only THEN did the real
reason become obvious when fuel was PUMPED out of the flexible fuel line
leading into the engine compartment. Once I replaced that flexible line
AND had the electric fuel pump did it start rapidly. It probably would
have if I had just replaced the flexible line.

Fast forward a year or so and the Greenbrier was getting harder to start
once again. Mostly when it sat for awhile but sometimes even on a quick
run to the grocery store. I was thinking it was the Bosch Super Coppers
that have done good duty for awhile and I was just about to check them when
the Greenbrier simply would not fire on a Monday AM before work. So I
needed to trouble shoot it quickly. A remote starter button was attached
and the main coil wire placed a short distance from ground. It would fire
about once per revolution, not good for the COIL wire. So I thought I
would quickly measure the positive coil wire and ensure I had the full 12
volts when cranking the engine. As it turned out, the 1.5 ohm Flamethrower
was registering only three to six volts when cranking. Clearly there was
too little positive coil voltage when cranking. A temporary clip lead was
run from a 12 volt source to the coil positive and the engine started
immediately, then the clip lead was removed. I suspect that when I swapped
in an engine, I somehow did not properly connect the 12 volt starting lead
from the starter to the ignition coil. Rather than spend time locating it,
I ran a starter solenoid lead 12 volt source and connected a power diode
pointing to the positive lead of the ignition coil. This would provide 12
volts to the coil but would not allow the coil voltage to power the starter
solenoid. It works like a champ. Now I just turn on the electric fuel
pump for a second or two and then start the engine and it starts in under a
second every time.

Total time to trouble shoot the missing 12 volts to the ignition coil was
about 5 minutes. It helps to have the tools right there. I did not even
need to lift the engine cover, and I was on my way.
--Larry